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Grad, gard, gord, gorod
goran-pavlovic
2012-11-27 06:41 AM
grad, gard, gord, gorod, hrad...

reč koja oznacava utvrdjenje na slovenskim jezicima.

na http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gord_(archaeology) piše ovo:

A gord is a medieval Slavic fortified settlement, also occasionally known as a burgwall or Slavic burgwall after the German name for these sites. The ancient peoples were known for building wooden fortified settlements. The reconstructed Centum-satem isogloss word for such a settlement is g'herdh, gordъ, related to the Germanic *gard and *gart (as in Stuttgart etc.). This Proto-Slavic word (*gordъ) for town or city, later differentiated into grad (Cyrillic: град), gard,[1][2] gorod (Cyrillic: город), etc.[3][4][5] The most explicit derivatives from grad are the Croatian word Gradjanski (Croatian: Građanski) and the Russian word Grazhdanye (Russian: Граждане) both means citizens.
znaci sloveni su svoje utvrde zvali gord, gard, gorod, grad a germani su te iste utvrde zvali „burgwall or Slavic burgwall”

ovde se kaže da je reč povezana sa germanskom reci gard

evo šta se kaže za gard

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gard

na slovenskim jezicima gard ima isto znacenje kao u sanskritu: staniste, naseobina, utvrda.

English garden (ogradjeni deo zemlje), yard (ogradjeni prostor), gard (cuvati)

ja mislim da su germani preuzeli od slovena reč gard i pojam to gard sto znaci cuvati podizanjem zida od kamena ili od ljudi (garda)

na http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_placename_etymology

Slavic names: Prior to the medieval Ostsiedlung, Slavic languages like Polabian, Sorbian, Pomeranian, and Slovenian were spoken in the eastern parts of the Holy Roman Empire. The German settlers and administration in many cases adopted existing Wendish placenames, for example Rostock (from Old Polabian rostok, „river fork”), Dresden (from Sorbian Drežďany), and Berlin (possibly from a Polabian word meaning „Swamp”). For the same reason, many German placenames ending in -anz (e.g. Ummanz), -gard (e.g. Burg Stargard), -gast (e.g. Wolgast), -itz (e.g. Lancken-Granitz), -ow (e.g. Gützkow), and -vitz or -witz (e.g. Malschwitz) have Slavic roots. Due to spelling and pronunciation changes over the centuries, the original Wendish term in most cases is not preserved. Also, some placenames combine a German with a Wendish term (e.g. Altentreptow). The German suffix -au can be related to the Slavic -ow and -ov when derived from the Old German spelling (u= w =double u; e.g. Prenzlau was earlier spelled Prenzlow).

interesantno je kako nisu pomenuli stutgart. stutgart lezi istocno od slovensko franacke granice u periodu 6 - 8 veka. sto znači da je verovatno slovenski grad.

dokaz da su mesta u nemackoj i skandinaviji sa nastavkom gard, gord, gart, bila originalno slovenske utvrde je u sledećem:

A gord is a medieval Slavic fortified settlement, also occasionally known as a burgwall or Slavic burgwall after the German name for these sites
znaci germani su slovenske gradove zvali burg ili burgwall.

dokaz da germani nisu nikad zvali svoja naselja gard ili gord može se videti u tome sto su mnogi gradovi preimenovani u burgove kada je teritorija osvojena od strane germana.
primer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikilenburg

Mecklenburg Castle was a medieval castle and a residential capital of the Nakonid and Nikloting dynasties of the Obotrites
maklenburg utvrda je bila sediste obodritske dinastije...

The travelling merchant Ibrahim Ibn Jacub described Mecklenburg as „Nakon’s Castle” in 965. By 995 it was documented as Michelenburg[3] or Mikelenburg, meaning large castle in Low German. In Latin, it was known as Magnopolis. The later duchy and region of Mecklenburg derives its name from the castle. The probable Slavic name, Veligrad also („great” or „large castle”).[3] was commemorated in a new Schloss Weligrad built between 1896 and 1898 for Duke John Albert of Mecklenburg.
znaci originalno ime je bilo Veligrad ili veligard. germani su ga zvali Mikelenburg sto znaci veliki grad na staro nemackom.

još jedan dokaz da germani i skandinavci nisu zvali svoje naseobine gard ili gord je jomsburg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jomsborg

skandinavci koji su ga osnovali kad su dosli da rade kao placenici za poljske kraljeve su koristili reč burg za grad.

da su gradovi slovenske gradjevine pokazuje i svedski naziv za slovenske zemlje: Garðaríki (zemlja gradova)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardariki

ono sto je najvaznije u vezi gradova severnih slovena je to da oni vuku direktan koren iz naseobina luzicke kulture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gord_(archaeology)

Similar strongholds were built during the late Bronze and early Iron Ages by the people of the Lusatian culture (ca. 1300 BC – 500 BC), and later in the 7th - 8th centuries CE in modern-day Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic and eastern Germany. These settlements were usually founded on strategic sites such as hills, riverbanks, lake islands or peninsulas.
dakle postoji veza preko gradova sa luzickom kulturom. na severnom baltiku su samo sloveni gradili gradove koji su bili slični luzickim gradovima iz bronzanog doba.
goran-pavlovic
2012-11-27 10:08 AM
ovo je još interesantno

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_placename_etymology

wend, or -winden (meaning small Slavic settlements in Germanic surroundings). Examples: Bernhardwinden near Ansbach, Wenden near Ebhausen
dakle slovenska naselja na germanskim teritorijama su imala u svojim nazivima wend, winden, (or vend u skandinaviji) kao znak da su tu živeli sloveni.

Wendisch-, Windisch- (Slovene) („Wendish”) . Example: Wendisch Baggendorf, Windischgarsten. This sometimes refers (particularly in present and former Austrian territories) to the original language of the inhabitants. Other examples: Böhmisch Krummau (Česky Krumlov), Unter-Deutschau (Nemška Loka).
The German settlers and administration in many cases adopted existing Wendish placenames, for example Rostock (from Old Polabian rostok, „river fork”), Dresden (from Sorbian Drežďany), and Berlin (possibly from a Polabian word meaning „Swamp”)
Due to spelling and pronunciation changes over the centuries, the original Wendish term in most cases is not preserved. Also, some placenames combine a German with a Wendish term (e.g. Altentreptow). The German suffix -au can be related to the Slavic -ow and -ov when derived from the Old German spelling (u= w =double u; e.g. Prenzlau was earlier spelled Prenzlow).

da pogledamo malo svedsku i sever danske

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendsyssel

Vendsyssel is the northernmost traditional district of Denmark and of Jutland.
Adam of Bremen (ca. 1075) calls Vendsyssel Wendila, Ælnoth (ca. 1100) calls it Wendel, the Icelandic literature Vendill. Derived from this is the ethnic name wændlar, Danish vendelboer, which is part of the name of the syssel. In the Danish Census Book (Kong Valdemars Jordebog, ca. 1231) Wændlesysæl, Wendelsysel, Wændil. Presumably originally the name of the Limfjord, then name of the region north of it. According to historians and linguists,[who?] the name Vendsyssel may be derived from the Germanic tribe of the Vandals. Syssel is an ancient form of administrative region. Vendel (Old Danish Wændil) was also the ancient name of the Limfjord itself.
kaže ime potice od vandala. interesantno je da germanski istoricari iz ranog srednjeg veka, kad govore o baltickim slovenima koriste naziv „vandali”. dakle ovi vandali su verovatno sloveni vendi.

pa onda ovo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendel

evo zašto je vendel važan:

Vendel has given its name to a period (the Vendel Age) in the Scandinavian Iron Age, and to the corresponding style in Art (the Vendel Style). It has often been suggested that the Germanic Vandals, or at least their kings or rulers, were connected to the site. In this it is coupled with the name of a companion site at Valsgärde in the same region. The close comparisons with the 27 metre ship burial at Sutton Hoo show a direct connection between the armourers producing work found at the two sites, a connection central to the understanding of both. The Sutton Hoo burial is often associated with King Raedwald of East Anglia, (ruled c 599-624), who in his later reign (c 616-624) was most powerful among the rulers of the English kingdoms.
nordijsko bronzano doba i luzicka kultura su toliko slične da je verovatno da je nordijsko bronzano doba samo produzetak luzicke kulture, iako na zapadu vole da kažu da je obrnuto. ali na viki strani o o nordijskom bronzanom dobu se kaže:

Even though Scandinavians joined the European Bronze Age cultures fairly late through trade, Scandinavian sites present rich and well-preserved objects made of wool, wood and imported Central European bronze and gold.
ako znamo da je bronza dosla u skandinaviju sa balkana preko centralne evrope i juznog baltika onda je verovatno i gvozdje sledilo istu rutu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohthere

Ohthere (also Ohtere), Old Norse Óttarr vendilkráka (Vendelcrow; in Modern Swedish Ottar Vendelkråka) is a semi-legendary king of Sweden of the house of Scylfings who would have lived during the 6th century (fl. c. 515 – c. 530[1]). His name can be reconstructed as Proto-Norse *Ōhta-harjaz or *Ōhtu-harjaz. The harjaz element is common in Germanic names and has a meaning of „warrior, army” (whence English harry); by contrast, the oht element is less frequent, and has been tentatively interpreted as „fearsome, feared”.

...

It is only Snorri who uses the epithet Vendelcrow, whereas the older sources Historia Norvegiae and Íslendingabók use it for his father Egill. Moreover, it is only in Snorri's work that story of Óttarr's death in Vendsyssel appears, and it is probably his own invention.[1] Ynglingatal only mentions that Óttarr was killed by the Danish jarls Vott and Faste in a place named Vendel (Laing has been influenced by Snorri's version in his translation):
dakle svedjanin koji je poginuo u danskom mestu Vendel...
prviarion
2012-11-27 01:02 PM
Da dodamo i juznosrbijanski naziv za bastu ,,GRADINA,, i italijanski ,,GARDINA,, (DJardina)...

GRAD u srpskom jeziku GRADE GRADJEVINCI, a u njemu žive GRADJANI.

U Engleskom... Nemackom...nema te ocigledne veze i proizilazenja...
arije
(sozidatelj stolpa serpskjago)
2012-11-28 01:57 PM
arione ti samo koristis izvedenice iz „grad”...sa tom „logikom” možeš da kažeš i izGRADiti itd ...sustinski g.pavlovic je u pravu kad kaže d aje grad slovenskog projekla zašto ? pa zato što je veoma mnogo rijeci povezano sa rjecju grad .a sam grad je najvjerovatnije izvedenica iz nečeg sto je ogradjeno ,dakle nekoliko kuca ili objekata oGRADjeno oGRADom . kao prilog tvrdnji tome da je riječ grad slovenska ide i sličan ili istovjetan anziv i u osalim slovesnkim jeizma sto svjedoci o drevnoslovenskom porjeklom rijeci dakle prije razdvanjanja slovena ,a sto je dosta davno hronoloski gledano . mnogo ranije nego li početak urbanizacije kod germana . na ceskom je to HRAD ,na ruskom gorod (ogordo je ogradjena teritorija ,ograzdenije -ograda),na nasem grad . smjesna je tvrdnja da bi grad mogao biti germanskog porjekla sto bi rekli „nidje veze ”:) ...
prviarion
2012-12-02 01:58 PM
Ko je rekao da je GRAD germanski?
Ja upravo i kažem da je GRAD (pa naramo i GRADitelj ili izGRADnja ili razGRADnja ili oGRADa ili zaGRADio...)SrpskOG POREKLA, a da su ga ostali uzeli od nas.
GOROD, HRAD itd..su samo lokalne varijacije...
Ostali su ga uzeli zdravo-za gotovo, otud (uglavnom)nemaju izvedenice iz istog...
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