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Sarmati - osnivaci engleske države
tutumrak
(programer)
2009-12-14 07:09 AM
nedavno sam citao na netu, da su arturiajnske legende u stvari prepis sarmatskih legendi, i da je kralj artur ustvari bio rimski general, sarmatskog porekla, koji je bio na sluzbi u engleskoj na samom kraju rimske vladavine tim prostorima. on je bio na celu sarmatskih oklopnih konjanika, najelitnijih jedinica rimske vojske, koje bi u vreme na primer drugog svetskog rata bile ekvivalent tenkovskim jedinicama za brze intervencije. covek je ostao u engleskoj posle povlacenja rimske vojske jer su sarmati bili placenici, koji su za rimljane ratovali za pare, i nisu bili pod njihovom direktnom kontrolom. kasnije je otisao iz engleske i zna se da je umro u dalmaciji.
dakle to sarmati su najveca zagonetka engleske arheologije trenutno. navodno ih je u englesku poslato samo 5000. navodno se 4500 njih onda gubi svaki trag, a ostalih oko 500 su bili stacionirani u severnoj engleskoj, prema skotskoj. navodno su onda svi otisli iz engleske posle povlacenja engleske vojske. međutim u poslednjih nekoliko godina, malo malo pa se otkopa još jedno sarmatsko groblje i to iz perioda stotinama godina posle navodnog povlacenja sarmata iz engleske.

iranci tvrde da su sarmati persijski elitni konjanici, takozvani besmrtnici, koji su prvi izumeli oklopnu konjicu da bi mogli da se suprotstave skitskim strelcima. pre njih nije postojala teska oklopna konjica, samo laka konjica.

iranci tvrde, a englezi se slazu, da su sve arturijanske legende prepisi mnogo starijih persijskih (sarmatskih) legendi. takođe sarmatski jezik, koji je trenutno sacuvan najviše u osetijskom, objašnjava mnoge reci koje su bile potpuno nerazumljive iz ovih legendi ali i sire. takođe verski sistem i drustvena organizacija sarmata je potpuno preslikana u u arturiajanskim mitovima. sarmati su obozavali mac i njihov oltar je bio mac pobijen u kamen (cudno kako krst pobijen u kame izgleda isto kao mac pobijen u kamen). sarmatske trupe su bile sastavljene i od muskaraca i od žena. to su bile prve žene ratnici koje su vidjene na tlu evrope. odatle reč amazon za žene ratnike, koja na sarmatskom znaci samo ratnik. sarmati su prvi u evropu doneli porodicne grbove koji su bili obojeni na stitovima i zastavama. glavni simbol sarmata je bio zmaj (na engleskom dragon). englezi tvrde da su sarmati to uzeli od kineza (ja lično mislim da su kinezi ovo uzeli od sarmata). prezime arturovog oca je bilo pandragon. velsani tvrde da je artur nihove gore list. velski simbol je zmaj. iranci tvrde da velski, staroskotski i irski poticu iz sarmatskog jezika.
iranci tvrde da su sarmati osnovali belu srbiju i belu hrvatsku u centralnoj evropi, kada su dosli u evropu i pomesali se sa starosedeocima slovenima. iranci takođe tvrde da u sarmatskom reč beo bela znaci zapadni zapadna. znaci bela srbija - zapadna srbija. to kao pandan zakavkaskoj zrvenoj srbiji i hrvatskoj.

sad pitanja:

ovde sam nalazio tvrdnje da su sarmati srbi i da je sarmatska srbija srpska država. da se razumemo. ja bih voleo da je to tačno, znaci ne želim da to osporim.

ako su sve osnovne price iz arturiajnskih legendi pronadjene u iranskim i osetskim spisima i legendama, da li se one takođe nalaze i u danasnjim srpskim legendama i mitovima.

da li su u srbiji ikada žene bile u vojsci?

ja znam da je srpska oklopna konjica bila jedna od naj elitnijih u srednjovekovnoj evropi. dusan je poslao 500 oklopnika na svetu goru da zastiti manastire od turskih upada. dakle tu postoji veza, srbi sarmati.

red zmaja je bio srednjovekovni viteski red u srbiji, i srpskim zemljama u danasnjoj madjarskoj i rumuniji. navodno su mnogi engleski, francuski i nemacki vitezovi bili clanovi ovog reda. kod nas postoje mnogi zapisi o zmaj vitezovima: zmaj od nocaja, zmaj ognjeni vuk...vlad tcepes (drakul) je bio naslednik komandanta reda zmaja (u to vreme sa padom srbije komanda nad redom zmaja je presla u madjarsku (rumuniju). drakul znaci zmaj. itd. znaci postoji veza i ovde.

dakle o cemu se ovde radi?

tutumrak
(programer)
2009-12-14 07:21 AM
evo ovde ukratko o arturijanskim legendama i sarmatima:

sarmatski komandant: Lucius Artorius Castus velsani ga zovu Nennius (Nin???)
bio u engleskoj: oko 182 AD
umro u dalmaciji
sarmatske legende: mac u kamenu kao oltar, ko izvuce mac iz kamena postaje kralj, sveta kupa, vile koje žive u jezerima...

The following is a rough explanation of the hypothesis, and a partial explanation for the problems it poses to civil discussion.

The Alano-Sarmatian hypothesis proposes, more or less, that the original, historical Arthur was a Roman military leader named Lucius Artorius Castus, who served as commander of a group of Sarmatian warriors (from what is now Iran and Russia) for two years in Britain, around 182. Castus probably led this group in battle several times, though he left Britain for other commands and eventually died in Dalmatia. The theory proposes that the Sarmatians in Britain continued to live there, possibly employed by the Roman military, possibly maintaining their nomadic ways and their own language, but at any rate telling their traditional stories with a new hero, Castus, called by them Artorius. Although the stories of Arthur were incorporated into British history as those of a fifth/sixth-century British military leader (Welsh annals and Historia Brittonum, aka „Nennius”) or king (Geoffrey of Monmouth) leading a confederation of British kings against the Germanic invaders/colonists, they are thought to contain information about the actual brief career of Castus in Britain, or perhaps of subsequent leaders of the Sarmatians nicknamed or actually named Artorius. According to this hypothesis, the emphasis on horsemanship in the later legends does not reflect high medieval chivalry but rather the horsemanship of these steppe nomads.
The hypothesis further proposes that, around the eleventh and twelfth centuries, the Artorius stories were combined with similar sagas told by people on the Continent descended from the Alans, a cultural group from the same region as the Sarmatians and with similar folklore and mythological traditions. These Alanic stories would include motifs such as a sword stuck in the ground and a sacred cup (possibly associated by Christian Alans with the Crucifixion), and women who dwell in watery places who help warriors. The assumptions here are that (1) these motifs are exclusively the property of the Alano-Sarmatian group and their modern descendents, and (2) these stories could become attached to Arthur only if he was originally the hero of that kind of story, i.e. a saga of Sarmatian origin. Thus Arthurian literature would have been born out of the meeting of two strains of the same type of legend, one told by Sarmatians in Britain about a man named Arthur, the other told on the Continent by Alans about several heros, including Lancelot. This would explain why there was such a sudden flowering of Arthurian literature in the twelfth century, when in fact political and economic conditions brought English, Anglo-Norman, Breton, and French cultures into contact.

Discussion problems: rhetoric
According to the defenders of this hypothesis, anything in Arthurian literature which can't be traced to these story types is irrelevant „overlay.” If a Welsh poem speaks of Arthur travelling to the otherworld to rescue a cauldron, the story is „overlay,” a borrowing of the name Arthur for a plot that does not really belong to him; if the same poem mentions Cei, that might be an authentic detail about Castus, who might have had a brother named Caius, and therefore part of the „core” of the legend. However, for those primarily interested in the Welsh texts themselves as integral works of literature, or for the information they offer about the culture and traditions of those who composed them, these Arthurian works are of great importance, while their significance as „proof” of Sarmatian influence is trivial.
There is also a considerable redundancy of explanation: for example, the sword cast into the lake is insisted upon as an Alano-Sarmatian motif, but it would have been extremely significant to British audiences, since the peoples of Britain had been making ritual deposits of swords in lakes since long before the coming of the Romans. Similarly, some names in the legend can be interpreted both using Celtic language roots and using Alano-Sarmatian or Latin roots.
Thus it can be seen that two sides easily form. One claims that only the Alano-Sarmatian material is of interest and that anything that can be interpreted as Alano-Sarmatian must be added to the „core” and is no longer part of the heritage of British folklore and story. The other is deeply offended by this attitude and insists on a more traditional examination of the relationships between the Arthurian legend and the cultures it purports to represent. A great deal of anger and ill-will has resulted, not only in these two parties, but in those who are not amused by the constant attacks of one party on the other. Notably, Dr. Malcor will never allow anyone to contradict her without contradicting them back.

tutumrak
(programer)
2009-12-14 10:46 AM
tutumrak
(programer)
2009-12-14 10:52 AM
evo ovde tekst o zmaju kao simbolu sarmatskih (skitskih) konjanika koji je kasnije preuzet od rimljana a koristio se i u kasnom srednjem veku. ka li postoje bilo kakve slike (freske) naših knjanika sa zmajevima???

http://www.fectio.org.uk/articles/draco.htm
tutumrak
(programer)
2009-12-14 11:40 AM
srbi osnivaci poljskih krilatih husara, najbolje lake konjice srednjovekovne evrope

srpski placenici koji su napustili srbiju posle kosova, poznati kao gusari (hussari) ili Racowie (raski) osnivaju poljsku pogranicnu husarsku konjicu, najbolju srednjovekovnu konjicu evrope. nose krila na oklopima napravljena od perja (sveti ratnici). neverovatan tekst sa gomilom slika na engleskom

http://www.polishforums.com/history-poland-34/role-serbian-medieval-cavalry-formation-polish-hussars-39724/
mandalina
(vila)
2009-12-14 02:31 PM
lepo, lepo..I mnogo pitanja, programeru..
Sad.. šta sam yapamtila, ostalo kasnije.

@gusari/husari nose krila na oklopima napravljena od perja@
Prelistaj ovu Vukašinovićevu knjizicu, videces Delije sa perjem svuda oko sebe..Pred kraj, traži skenirane strane sa slikama i tekstom iz knjige Nikolasa de Nikole

http://www.scribd.com/doc/21359161/Srpski-vitezovi
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/9628/004ivm.jpg
http://i mg194.imageshack.us/img194/5963/003luv.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4370/004nrs.jpg

Jedno „keltsko ” pleme (sami sebe su nazivali WALACH... ostalo zabeležno kod starih Germana)-sagradilo je utvrdjenje Srba u južnoj Engleskoj..
Latini su ga zvali kasnije SORBIO DUNUM..Blizu je Stounhedž...Salisbury, Wiltshire, southern England...
Englezi ga zovu i SARUM, eto ti odakle su Englezi pozajmili „arturijanske” legende, po predanju o vitezovima Zmaja.
(Marko Kraljevic odlazi u san sa svojim vitezovima i cekamo dan kada će ustati-isti motiv ovde i tamo)

lokacija
http://i20.tinypic.com/34xjg3o.jpg
rekonstrukcija
http://www.abandonedcommunities.co.uk/10861.JPG
tutumrak
(programer)
2009-12-15 05:15 AM
hvala ti mandalina. ovo sam tražio. što se tiče knjige koju si mi preporucila, secam se da sam pre mnogo godina procitao knigu sveti ratnici, koja je bila posvecena našim srednjovekovnim ratnicima. ona je tvrdila da su nasi srednjovekovni vitezovi bili najbolje obuceni vojnici srednjeg veka, i da su vlasteliske kuce evrope slale svoje sinove da se obucavaju ratovanju u srbiji.
jako je interesantan deo ozmajevima psima. nasao sam jako puno diskusija koje tvrde da su glave sarmatskih zmajeva jako licile na psece glave. da li se zna koji su to psi o kojima se govori u rasnom zakonu? da li ih još uvek ima u srbiji?
interesantna paralela sa irskom. u staroj irskoj se izuzetno postovao pas koji jako lici po opisu na zmaja. zove se wulfhound i i dalje postoji, samo sto je jako redak. ukucaj wolfhound u google da vidis slike. cudo od psa. kad se pojavi na ulici svi se okrecu da ga vide.
Tabanac
(DR.voseca)
2009-12-15 04:14 PM
...dosta toga sam slusao od kolega o ovoj temi i samo se potvrdjujete...ukoliko bih smeo da upadnem u diskusiji,nemojte zaboraviti da je pionir na ovu temu i ovu teritoriju bio niko drugi već vas pesnik i pisac Milos Crnjanski,tada vrlo neugodno ocenjen i neprilično prihvacen...njemu za dusu,pronadjite bar nešto o onome o cemu je tada tvrdio o Srbima i njihovim korenima u Velikoj Britaniji...za početak o VINDsorima..
a meni za dusu njegovu pesmu koja se zove samo „Pesma” gde se oseca miris bagrema kao u Srbiji pred svitanje u maju...
Varuna
(novinar)
2009-12-15 09:59 PM
Crnjanski, Ranka Kuić i Ilija Živančević su imali veliko istraživanje srpskih tragova u Britaniji. Kuićkine knjige još nema na netu.

Ovo je knjiga istoričara Relje Novakovića po Crnjanskom
http://www.scribd.com/doc/22087192/Drevni-Srbi-Na-Britanskom-Tlu-Nepoznati-Crnjanski-Relja-Novakovic

Kelt i i Srbi,samo 10 strana
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2881174/-

Motiv ubijanja zmaja i prikazi kako ga nose kopljanici (Sarmati,Gusari/Husari ali i drugi) video sam ovde
http://www.nsprogram.org/forum/showthread.php?t=858&page=5

A i ovde ima nekih odlomaka (Kuićka i vezano za Boku Kotorsku)
http://www.nsprogram.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2419&page=2

Za psima,ako ih ima u Srbiji,tragaju masoni, još samo to nisu zloupotrebili.Ko ih i ima,neka ih krije. „Tajna je velika”, kažu;)
Ovo su psi iz vremena i okruženja Nina, Beolovog sina
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/8350/a1eq.jpg

Wolfhound deluje moćno (nemački ovčar , kome smo dali onostaro ime-vučjak, niži je od originalnog našeg vučjaka),ali Silvan je zaista moćan!!

Beliefs about these dogs among Serbian people is that Almighty God himself gave those dogs to us from beginning of the world, to guard and defend us, and keep us on rightful path..
(Hajkaši,Dagari,Lavovi, Gare i Garovi,Vučjaci, Zmajevi,Silvani)
http://www.molossos.gr/en/content/silvan-old-serbian-wolfhound-sooty-dragon-myth-or-reality
http://be rzapasa.com/?page_id=71
poLUTKA
(pa lutka brate)
2009-12-16 02:45 AM
Da, Sorbiodunum = Sorviodunum = Sarum.
Napisan je i roman (podebeo) o ovom gradu, doduse, iz nenaučne perspektive:

http://www.amazon.com/Sarum-Novel-England-Edward-Rutherfurd/dp/0449000729/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid =1260948873&sr=1-1

A postoji i Vindolanda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vindolanda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vindolanda_tablets

Takođe, jel' se iko zapitao odakle zapravo potice ime IVANhoe?
tutumrak
(programer)
2009-12-16 06:57 AM
evo još malo o vezi srba i sarmata. sarmatski mastif najstarija evropska rasa pasa, dosao iz azije, koriscen kao ratni pas. kaže ovde da je povezan sa srpskim rasama. neki tvrde da je izumro i da je ovo što se sada zove sarmatski mastif lažni mastif dobijen ukrstanjem nekoliko vrsta pasa.

The Sarmatian Mastiff is one of the oldest breeds in the world, regarded as the key progenitor of the initial incarnation of the Alaunt, but is also related to the dogs of Central Asia, Tibet and the Caucasus. Some believe that its closest cousin is the Balkarian type of the Caucasian Ovcharka, while others link it to the Sage Koochee of Afghanistan and the ancient Assyrian Mastiff. It is interesting to note that one theory links the Sarmat to the Molossers of the Balkans, these colossal working dogs presumably having been brought to the region by a portion of the returning Serbian tribes, but some argue that it is more likely that the earlier journeys of these same tribes have taken the Sarmatian Mastiffs to the Balkans, where they've been assimilated into the original proto-Molossian population. Whether the link between the Sarmatian and Balkan dogs is a result of the travels in a single direction or a two-way exchange, it is still seen as very real, with the connection remaining strong to this day.
The great Sarmat Dog is falsely seen as a regional type of the Central Asian Shepherd breed, even though the differences in physical built and temperament are quite noticeable, with the Sarmatian dogs being closer to the Caucasian stock than anything else. Having been shaped by the the nomadic life in harsh climates of the steppes in southern Ural, this is a rugged, uncomplicated and resilient dog, posessing a fairly sharp personality, but also great intelligence and ability to differentiate between true and false danger, making it an excellent property guardian and companion for experienced owners. Like other Molossers of the area, this is a very dominant breed, oftentimes seen battling other dogs in traditional fighting tournaments. Although it has been considered extinct for many years, this legendary mastiff is still alive, thought to have changed very little since the 5th century B.C. and is on its way to possible recognition in the future. However, it should be noted that the current incarnation is in fact a revived breed and not the true continuation of this ancient Moloss. With the slowly increasing popularity of the current Sarmat incarnation also came the rumours of it being a designer breed of recent origin, with the Deutsche Dogge having played a key part in its establishment, but the fanciers of the Sarmatian Mastiff dismiss these claims as being nothing more than spiteful attacks and false statements made by jealous CAO breeders. Although unlikely, the possibility of some Sarmat breeders resorting to outcrosses could be expected in the future, due to the limited gene pool and especially when taking into consideration the emphasis put on the breed's height, but for now, the only „foreign” blood admittedly used early in the revival programme has been that of the larger representatives of the shepherds and mastiffs from undisclosed Central Asian regions.
The mighty Sarmat is slowly gaining popularity in Russia, but remains relatively unknown elsewhere. It can be quite stubborn, but the breed is reasonably trainable and makes a good protection dog. The Sarmatian Mastiff is gentle with children and devoted to its owner, but aloof with strangers and unfriendly towards other dogs, needing early and broad socialization. No known health problems have been reported, although some joint issues may occur, as is the case with other giant breeds. Like its Caucasian and Central Asian cousins, this Molosser has a high pain tolerance and rarely complains, even when seriously hurt. Because of this, some dogs can seem healthy and move normally, while in fact being in pain, but choosing to ignore it. The Sarmat Dog has a well-boned and muscular body, with a straight back, long legs and a powerful neck. The head is broad and large, described as being „horselike” in features by the breed fanciers, with a slightly longer muzzle than the Central Asian Ovcharka. The jaws are well-developed and defined. The skin is more flexible on the head and neck than on the body, but isn't loose or hanging in any way. The ears are cropped and the tail is docked, although some examples are born naturally bobtailed. The coat is short, hard and thick, with a dense undercoat and being fuller on the head, neck and tail. The majority of modern dogs are white with darker patches of grey, black, fawn, red, brown and brindle shades, but black-n-tan and uniform black, grey, yellow, white, brindle and brown examples still exist as well. Female dogs are noticeably smaller than their male counterparts. Average height is around 35 inches, with some males reportedly even reaching over 40 inches at the withers.
StevaCar
2009-12-19 10:47 AM
Sarmatima neki i opovrgavaju da su Srbi, pa čak i da su preci Slovena, ali je u nauci priznato da su iransko pleme (sa iranskog platoa se misli u praistoriji, a ne današnji Iranci)..
Prve dve strane ove teme na sledećem forumu treba svakako videti
(link je za osmu stranu koju trenutno čitam)
http://forcesdz.forumactif.com/histoire-militaire-f24/les-origines-de-vos-peuples-t1369-105.htm
StevaCar
2009-12-19 12:28 PM
da li su u srbiji ikada žene bile u vojsci?
...
Програмеру, вероватно је питање усмерено на паралеле са ратницама око Каспијског /Хвалијског мора (Мама Азовеке)..причу о њима много су деформисали стари Грци

Овде је како-тако обрађен тема о ратницама Сарбатије и аријанкама
http://www.rasonalisti.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=571

О савременим српским ратницама
http://www.nsprogram.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-1096.html
http://www.tvorac-grada.com/forum/view topic.php?p=139942&sid=05c316e1f2bb9915ff36b59cfe5b2d59

grob iranske ratnice sarmatskog porekla od pre 2000 godina
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6661426/
parsi i međanske ratnice, bas lako povezive sa današnjim nama..jedna ima ilirski simbol na čelu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66unfiedk-o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBj71SquoGU&feature=related
Za tvoju temu u knjizi
Sarum: The Novel of England ..„Aelfgifu is a warrior woman.”
http://www.amazon.com/Sarum-Novel-England-Edward-Rutherfurd/dp/0517223546/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-5028485-10952... ?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188794867&sr=1-1

Vidi kako ih ilustruju kao rusokose u „tem” Velsu gde žive Velsha-ni, Walaschani, Vlasi i Volosovi sledbenici, ustvari.
http://intlxpatr.wordpress.com/2007/09/03/levantinegulfpersian-warrior-women/
mandalina
(vila)
2009-12-22 08:08 PM
Programeru, sarmati ili srbi su čuvene zmajoubice))
Srma je srma!
Iz Miroslavljevog jevandjelja

http://www.montenegro.org/pictures/gospel1.gif
http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/9742/miroslav333xl0.gi f

http://portal.unesco.org/ci/en/files/7296/11635163373Miroslav_081r_big.jpg/Miroslav%2B081r_big.jpg

http://www.mi roslavljevojevandjeljefaksimil.com/komentari.htm

mandalina
(vila)
2009-12-22 08:30 PM
Treba istražiti da nije BUDIKA bila od kelta, sarmata ili sorba))
Englezi će izvrsiti masovni hari-kiri ako sam u pravu,hehehe..

http://istorijska-biblioteka.wikidot.com/art:boudica

Na nekim sajtovima kažu da je od Kelta (a oni su sebe zvali WALACH) a i onaj SERBIO DUNUM, izgradilo je „keltsko”„ pleme SORBI.

http://articles.mibba.com/History/1496/Boudicca-The-Events-of-60-61-AD
I uglavnom je rusokosa u ”zamišljajima„..mada je opis Tacita i onog drugog da je crnokosa..Udovica koju su kratkonogi Latini silovali, ako i njene dve ćerke, kako da se ne osveti???

http://www.third-millennium-library.com/readinghall/UniversalHistory/England/KingAlfredofEngland/Images/boa dicea.jpg

Pominju englezi pleme ICENI, prestonica je bila VEN(di)TA))
http://time-lines.co.uk/iceni-celtic-coins-1575-0.html

Zidali su ukrug, kao i Sorbio /dunum)
[The Wandlebury Ring image 1: Stapleford, Cambridgeshire]
The Wandlebury Ring image 2: Stapleford, Cambridgeshire

http://www.sheshen-eceni.co.uk/icenian.html

The truth is that not much is known about the Iceni. They didn't leave written texts that give us clues about what they called each other or how they lived. Most of what we know comes from Roman sources and so the names would have been written down in the Roman 'style'. Even Boudicca has been known as Boadicea and a number of other pronunciations/spellings. Her husband was called Prasutagus which to me sounds very Romanised.

About the best I can do is give you this link to a list of ancient celtic names. Some of these names were probably used by the Iceni.

http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/cel-anci_m.php
Za Budiku nema keltskog imena..Samo kasniji naziv ”pobednica„
BOUDICCA
Derived from British boud meaning ”victory„

mandalina
(vila)
2009-12-22 08:41 PM
„Bodičejino” „keltsko ” pleme ICENI bili su na jugoistoku, a onaj SORBIODUNUM nalazi se na mesti gde je upisano „keltsko” oleme BELGAE.
http://www.britannia.com/history/celtictribes.gif

još tri bitne stvari treba da znaš:
Vilijam Volis je bio pripadnik Obilićevog reda zmaja
(ali nije ličio na jezuitu Mela Gipsona, nego je imao orlovski nos kano Obilić)

„Keltska muzika” je upprošćena srpska muzika.. sve sviraju kao „srpsku dvojku”, a koreografi bi imali mnogo strana da napišu o istvovetnosti figura i koraka

„Keltski krst” je uprošćeni starosrpski krst..nedostaje mu trougao iznad krsta upisanog u krug..nije potpuni. izgubili su se tamo daleko..

Kod Milojevića u knjizi ima upisano ime čoveka koji je prvi sa severa Evrope (od Venda)krenuo ladjaa prema tom ostrvu UK (gde sunce retko dolazi)..Čini mi se da se prezivao VILIĆ.. ali treba proveriti, nisam skoro citala taj deo.

ČAk i „keltski ” -waLASHKI..GLAVNI BOG LATINIZOVANOG IMENA je onaj naš Volos,Veles,Wels)),,,ali svašta su zaboravili „Keltoi” u UK, a oni u Skotiji tek!!!

mandalina
(vila)
2009-12-27 06:30 PM
mandalina
(vila)
2009-12-29 04:31 AM
Tutumrak, imaš potvrdu kod Crnjanskog!!

Говорећи о Вендима и Келтима у Вендеји и Бретањи (сјеверозападна Француска), Црњански пише:

„Још у доба када је живео Цезар, Вендеја је била вендска... говор, ношња становништва у Бретањи, цео фолклор, чудновато личе и на словенске трагове. Када су недавно у Француској, француски археолози проучили ископине и фолклор, на пример Гвемене, упозорили су да су наишли на траг Словена (on y trauve un spuvenir Slaves). Траг је био вендски као и на британским острвима...Последњи сјајни, (наводно) келтски гробови нађени су у месту Викс. Француски археолози су тај траг назвали сарматским (Сармати су далеки преци Словенима).”
Будући да су Вендима именовани древни Словени, одговор је прилично јасан. Најплеменитији витез краља Артура, достојан да нађе Свети грал, био је краљ Борса од Гола, вјероватно келтско - вендског, дакле и словенског поријекла.

Gledajuci kao toponim na guglu,Borsa/Borša je grad u Rumuniji gde sarbska kola i dalje igra veliko pleme SARBI.
Borşa, a town in Maramureş County, Romania

http://www.davinellicson.com/index.php#mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&s=0&p=2&a=0&at=0

Најплеменитији витезови краља Артура били су браћа Бан и Борса, владари (банови) Бретање, некадашње Арморике. Банов син Ланселот, кога је спасила ћерка краља Бедемага, такођер је постао чувени Артуров витез. Али, најчистији и најсветији био је Борса, један од тројице витезова који су, по предању, видјели Свети грал. Он се једини вратио да краљу Артуру и његовом двору опише чудеса те потраге.

Издвојио сам средишња имена из наведене Милтонове ''Историје'' и осјетио блискост словенских и келтског језика са њиховим изговором и значењем: Мулмутије, Тројанова, Брен, Белин, Лад, Касибелан, Симбелин (Синбелин), Денбај, Велс (Велес), Дубриције (Добриције), Венедоције, Бегдемаг, Бан, Борса...
Онда сам се упитао: ког поријекла су били утемељитељи британског и средњевјековног европског витештва, посебно племенити Борса, први трагалац за Светим гралом?
(Spasoje Vlajić)
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