Forums : Kulinarstvo

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Kefir?
out_of_control2010-11-28 03:34 PM
Kao sto naslov kaže, imam gljivice kefira :).

Citala sam malo na netu šta i kako, ali čula bih i od vas iskusnih domaćica kako se pravi, cuva na duže staze ako mi se jedno vreme ne pravi, da li mogu da ga koristim kao jogurt u kuvanju, kolacima, itd?

Hvala unapred!
Mamajac
(Beograd)
2010-11-28 06:10 PM
Kad ti dosadi, isperes gljive, spakujes u plasiticne kesice, pa u friz. Prezivljavaju na -18°C, provereno :)
Draganessa
(Projektant)
2010-11-28 11:24 PM
Ne treba da ispires, ja sam citala da im to umanjuje moc.
zecic-zecic
2010-11-29 01:42 AM
A da li neko zna gde u Beogradu mogu da se nabave gljivice kefira?
Mamajac
(Beograd)
2010-11-29 04:51 AM
Mora da se ispira, Draganessa, i prilikom proizvodnje kefira (kad odlijes kefir, gljivice isperes vodom, pa nalijes novo mleko), a i ovako kad idu na led. Gjlive se naprave se na „nešto ljigavo” ako se ne ispiraju.

Evo mog iskustva
http://mamajacooks.blogspot.com/2009/02/kefir-od-tibetanske-gljive.html

majkakokodajka
(slikar)
2010-11-29 05:56 AM
Ja isto ispiram gljivice, mada sam na netu videla da ne ispiju-ta sluz kažu da je upravo probiotik... Moja baba je uvek mekane gljivice odstranjivala a pravila od cvrstih.

Mene zanima koju kolicinu gljivice stavite na pola litre mleka? Ja odprilike 3 supene kasike-tako videh na netu. Moja baba je opet stavljala par grumuljica na litar mleka - nije bio kiseo već nešto slično gaziranom ukusu...

Evo ideje za kefir sir :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImKQuEY3PyY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBv6cAoZOPg&feature=rela ted

Ja nisam još pravila ali može biti zanimljivo sa raznim dodacima , mljac :) Slično makedonskoj urdi...

Svasta nešto zanimljivo:
http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefir_cheese.html
Draganessa
(Projektant)
2010-11-29 01:03 PM
Eto, ja uvek pravim bas od takvih ljigavih, mislila sam da je to normalno. Ništa nam nije bilo za godinu i vise kako to konzumiramo, pa ako to nešto znaci, eto... :-)
Draganessa
(Projektant)
2010-11-29 01:58 PM
Malo sam kopala po internetu: nasi izvori kažu da se ispiraju, a strani da se ne ispiraju. Go figure!

Ovaj sajt mi deluje dobro potkovan istrazivanjima: http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefir-faq.html#rinsing

Ukratko: ne treba ispirati jer se time remeti ritam mikroflore na povrsini gljivica.

DO I NEED TO RINSE KEFIR GRAINS OR FAST THEM IN WATER. WHAT'S BEST?

Under most circumstances kefir grains do not need to be rinsed with water [or fresh milk] between each milk change, or fasted in fresh cold water either. If you ever do rinse your grains with water, just be sure to use non chlorinated, sterile, COLD water [The water should first be boiled then cooled to room temperature]. Using fresh milk instead of water to rinse the grains should also be avoided, if the rinsing-milk is going to be discarded.

The rinsing of kefir grains has came about after the mother-culture was introduced to the western world, possibly in the belief that rinsing inhibits or removes weed microorganisms from the surface of the grains [this is modern-day microbe-phobia]. Rinsing the grains has been found to upset the rhythm of the microflora found on the surface of the grains. This is because of the fashion in which the organisms are arranged over the surface of the grain. With the use of clean, fresh milk to prepare kefir, there is very little risk in culturing weed microorganisms.

As far as I understand, where kefir originated, the people of Northern Caucasus did not rinse their kefir grains. These folks practiced the art of continuous fermentation. The kefir grains were constantly left in the same goatskin bag, and as portions of kefir was poured out from the bag daily, the bag was replenished with fresh milk. The milk they used came fresh from their milking animals, which went directly into preparing kefir [the milk was as fresh as you can get].

Any amount of curd which initially forms around each grain during the culture-cycle, forms a protective barrier around each grain. This may in fact help to inhibit weed microorganisms from propagating quite effectively than if rinsing the grains, which removes the protective acid-curd. When doing so the grains are exposed to the environment. The grains need a few hours to rebuild this curd, which once again will initially form around each grain. If one removes this curd on a daily basis through rinsing, then the chances of contamination becomes greater than if leaving an acid-curd protective-barrier around each grain at all times.

Rinsing kefir grains removes many important friendly microbes and yeasts from the surface of the grain, and possibly also removes certain protective compounds or mechanisms not yet discovered [or not well understood]. Such factors could be essential in maintaining a balance between the microflora and may inhibit weed organisms. Not to mention that removing friendly organisms from the surface of the grains reduces their counts, making conditions more favourable for weed organisms to thrive, due to less competition.

If you must rinse your grains due to habit, I suggest fasting your kefir grains by soaking the grains in pre-boiled, cold fresh water for 12 - 24 hours instead. This may be performed weekly, fortnightly or monthly instead or rinsing on a daily basis. Fasting kefir grains in water can be performed at room temperature or in the refrigerator. Although, this is not essential to perform either, but my own personal preferred method in an attempt to wean rinsing-addicts from rinsing their grains between each milk change. To perform the water-fast, use about 1 part grains to 3 parts water by volume [use pre-boiled then cooled good quality water, boiled without a lid on the pot to evaporate any chlorine found in tap water]. After a 12 - 24 hour water-fast, strain the grains and then use them for preparing kefir per usual. The strained-water is quite slippery, due to the soluble polysaccharide, kefiran. I've named this compound solution, Kefiraride. [Please see next FAQ for tips and recipes for using kefiraride as a natural healing-promoting agent, and more].

The Exception to the No-Rinsing Rule

Viili Cross-contamination. Milk kefir-grains easily become cross-contaminated if the grains come in contact with Viili [Piima]; a Nordic or Scandinavian ropy culture milk-product. If culturing Viili in close proximity to kefir, kefir grains may begin producing a kefir with a ropy consistency, making it next to impossible to strain the culture-milk through a sieve. Kefir grains readily adopt the Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris SBT 1275 organism, a specific type-strain responsible for the blob-like or ropy consistency of Viili. One only needs to use the same spoon to stir or scoop Viili, which later comes in contact with kefir grains, for cross-contamination of kefir grains. Even if days later the same spoon comes in contact with kefir grains, the grains will end up producing a cross between kefir and Viili [Kefiili] within a short period. To remedy this problem, water-fast pre-rinsed kefir grains in fresh, clean water for 24 to 48 hours, resting the grains in the refrigerator during the water fast. Strain the grains through a sterile sieve, rinse the grains with cold sterile water and then culture in fresh milk per usual [making certain to sterilise the jar and lid first]. The rinsing and fasting of Viili cross-contaminated kefir grains may need to be performed more than once, and possibly up to 3 times.

Non homogenized, but pasteurised full cream cow's milk may cause problems to kefir grains, after time. This is due to the denaturing of milk-fat through the pasteurisation of non homogenized whole cow's milk. In this case, the milk-fat becomes similar to butterfat, which could readily adhere to the surface of kefir grains that come in contact with the milk-fat during fermentation, especially during warmer conditions where the milk fat is an oily state. Such grains will end up with fat deposits [yellow milk-fat], partially covering the surface of any effected grain. Such grains will have mottled or patches of yellow milk fat. This milk-fat may suffocate the grains in this case, if the fat is left adhered to any grain over a length of time. To remedy this problem, place the grains in a bowl filled with luke warm water, no hotter than body temperature, and remove any adhered yellow milk-fat from the surface of kefir grains, with a gentle rubbing action between two clean fingers.

When dehydrating kefir grains, it is recommended to first rinse the grains with fresh, clean cold water to remove proteins [kefir] adhered to the surface of the grains before drying.


out_of_control
(desno pomoćno smetalo)
2010-11-29 05:20 PM
Hvala svima :).

Zanima me još koliko tačno stavljate na odprilike solju mlijeka.
Ja ih izgleda imam previse, moracu malo da bacim jer kako god i koliko god kratko da ostavim da se pravi, kefir mi ispane gust i pomalo kiseo.
Draganessa
(Projektant)
2010-11-29 05:33 PM
Moras da eksperimentises, meni je dosta dve supene kasike na pola litre mleka. Nemoj crna da bacas visak, već stavi u ziplock kesicu pa u friz. Pokloni nekom. To je blago!
out_of_control
(desno pomoćno smetalo)
2010-11-29 09:05 PM
Hahaha 'crna' :))).
Ma moracu tako, jer zasad bas imam dosta, a pravim samo za sebe trenutno posto su ostali izjavili da neće ni da ga probaju :(.
Donio mi prijatelj punu zdjelicu prije par dana, ja eksperimentisem od tad, al' bezuspjesno. Uvijek mi izadje jako gust, kiseo i grudvicast.

Draganessa
(Projektant)
2010-11-29 09:44 PM
Probaj da stavis onda jednu punu kafenu kasicicu, pa ako nije dovoljno fermentisano narednog dana, ostavi još 4 sata, i probaj onda. Ali kad cedis procedi kroz gustu cediljku jer ne bi trebalo da ostane grudvicav.

Kefir je super zdrava stvar, ne odustaj još!
Mamajac
(Beograd)
2010-11-30 02:42 PM
Hmmm, Draganessa, ja sam bas dosta revnosno ispirala te gljive, i bas me nerviralo ako ostane i malo te sluzi! :) Meni je tako objasnila drugarica od koje sam gljivu dobila, a i po netu sam nasla slične instrukcije, doduse, tražila sam samo stranice na srpskom. Hvala na ovim informacijama, imacu u vidu za drugi put. Inače mi je bilo dosadilo da pretacem gljivu svako vece, i veci deo sam razdelila, samo ostavila u frizu jednu za pelcer. Kad je oept vratim u zivot probacu da je ne ispiram. Ili bar ne onako temeljno koliko sam ranije radila.

Pozdravi!
out_of_control
(desno pomoćno smetalo)
2010-11-30 06:43 PM
Tura od juče sa manje gljivica mi je uspjela, eno je hladi se u frizideru. Već sam probala malo i nije uopste kiselo, i fino je pitko i rijetko.
I ja sam je dosad, ovoliko koliko je imam, svaki put ispirala sa prokuvanom vodom :). Probacu bas sutra da je samo onako vratim. Samo meni je problem sto je ne mogu fino procijediti, pa dosta onih grudvica ostanu po njoj.
Ne mogu nigdje naći plasticnu cjediljku, pa je cijedim u plasticnoj rupicastoj kasiki :S.
Obilazim prodavnice od nekidan, ali uzalud, sve sto mogu naći su metalne :(.
Hvala još jednom na savjetima!
Draganessa
(Projektant)
2010-12-01 09:36 AM
Ja koristim metalnu cediljku, nikakvih problema.
majkakokodajka
(slikar)
2010-12-01 11:19 AM
Ja sam negde izbunarila da sme jedino cediljka od cistog rosvaja...u Srbiji teško da može da se nadje rosvaj cedilka, vremenom sve zardjaku sto je dokaz da nije cist rosvaj (valjda)...U Srbiji je plastika mnogo pouzdanija( ima kod svakog plasticara, u većim marketima...)

Jel znate da li smeju oni koji imaju problem sa zeludcem da piju kefir? Helicobacret mi napravio dar-mar, sad sam je stukla lekovima, nadam se...pa mi frka da eksperimentisem...
out_of_control
(desno pomoćno smetalo)
2010-12-01 03:48 PM
Onda ću i ja s metalnom dok ne nađemplasticnu :).

Majka... , ne znam na kakve probleme sa zelucem mislis. Probaš malo, pa vidis jel ti smeta. Ja imam intoleranciju na laktozu i juče poslije prve case nisam imala nikakvih problema :).
paukovaca
(obaram s nogu)
2010-12-03 05:37 PM
kefir je jako blagotvoran za zeludac.
tinicakatarinica
2010-12-07 08:05 AM
A gde bi mogla da nabavim gljivice, i ja bih rado pravila...
majkakokodajka
(slikar)
2010-12-07 01:07 PM
gde živis? Ako si u bgd-u ja ti mogu dati kad se namnoze
tinicakatarinica
2010-12-07 05:47 PM
Joj nezivim u srbiji već u americi. Hvala mnogo...
Draganessa
(Projektant)
2010-12-09 04:59 PM
Tinice, mogu ja da ti posaljem. Pisi mi na <[email protected]>.
La_Schtroumpfette
2010-12-17 11:58 AM
Majkakokodajka, da li još uvek imate gljivice i da li biste podelili sa mnom kad se razmnoze posto sam iz bg-a, rado bih se oprobala u njihovom gajenju :)i naravno uzivanju u kefiru. Do sad sam koristila samo tzv. Vodeni Kefir (japanske kristale) ali bih sada da probam i mlecni. Hvala
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