Дискусије : Аутомото

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Razradjivanje novog motora
mrsolj1971
(veterinar)
13. октобар 2010. у 10.34
Pozdrav drustvo, evo opet mene sa još jednim „smart ass” pitanjem :-).

Secam se ranije kad je cale kupovao novi auto da su mu govorili da prvih 1000 km ili tako nešto ne vozi preko 100km/h dok se auto „razradi” ili da ne ubrzava previse itd, zatim tu idu servisi na određeni broj predjenih km a vidim i mom rodjaku koji je nedavno kupio novu Toyotu u Bgd-ovom predstavnistvu takođe su dali sličan savet.

Ovde kad sam kupovao auto nikakav savet tog tipa, nema servisiranja posle odredjenog broja milja, sem promene ulja i tehnickog. Znam da sad više ne podesavaju ventile itd itd, pa verovatno takav vid servisiranja nije ni potreban vise, ali me interesuje ovo oko razradjivanja motora, jer ti obično kažu „motoru treba nekoliko hiljada milja da se razradi” ali ti niko ne pominje nikakva ogranicenja s tim u vezi.

Koje je vase mišljenje o ovome?

Srdacan pozdrav
Mostro
(junior member)
13. октобар 2010. у 15.31
da to se ranije tako radilo, pa se posle hiljadu-dve km dotezala glava motora. Ali sad je to već fabricki sve pritegnuto u mikron.
Što se razradjivanja tiče, ja sam primetio da automobili koji se ostrije voze, nešto manje traju (možda 5 do 10 %), ali to danas i nisu neke razlike kad prelaze po 400-500 K km, promenices ga i ranije, dosadice ti i izaci će novi interesantniji modeli.
Samo vozi, neka ti je sa srećom novi auto !
Hobo
(Pacifing by force)
13. октобар 2010. у 17.13
Bez obzira na sva tehnoloska dostignuca na polju mehanike i termo dinamike ipak je neophodno da se povede racuna pri voznji odprilike prvih 1000 km puta.Neophodno je da sve to nalegne, karike naročito i da se ukloni kontaminacija motora.

Auto da se zagreje pre voznje, neofsirati, izbegavati visoke obrtaje itd. Posle prvog servisa ili posle prve promene ulja...„vozi Misko”.
Pjer
(svratio samo na 5 minuta)
13. октобар 2010. у 19.56
Za moju Toyotu proizvodjac je preporucio da se ne vozi brze od mislim 90 km/h prvih 1000 km. Naravno to sam procitao Nakon što sam ga vozio autoputem od prodavaca do kuce 300 km brzinom od oko 120 km/h. ;)

Tehnicar
(Tehnicar)
14. октобар 2010. у 20.06
Najnovije teorije su upravo suprotne: Ostra voznja i često mijenjanje ulja prvih par hiljada. Usljed pojacanog trosenja u početku razradjivanja motora(grublje povrsine) pri ostrijoj voznji, pravilno naljeganje klipova i karika na cilindre motora je intenzivnije, te motor biva zivahniji i trajniji tokom daljeg koristenja kada se trenje smanjuje i klizne povrsine ispoliraju same od sebe.
kulica
(tehnicar)
17. октобар 2010. у 23.46
Moj otac i tetak kupili u isto vreme tamo neke 89 godine Lade Samare potpuno isti.Naravno ja sam ,,razradjivao,, nasu i poslije jedno godinu dana nekim slučajem sjednem u tetkovu,ne možeš vjerovati koja razlika,auto nije islo ni blizo nasoj.Samo moje iskustvo.
mrsolj1971
(veterinar)
18. октобар 2010. у 09.43
kulica(tehnicar):

Nisi nam samo rekao kako si ti razradjivao a kako rodjak, mislim o stilu voznje, kako je ko vozio?
Pozdrav
mrsolj1971
(veterinar)
18. октобар 2010. у 09.45
Tehnicar, jel ima možda neki link o ovome sto si rekao ili tako nešto.
Meni se nekako čini da je ispravnije voziti u početku lagano, pa kasnije agresivnije, ali to što se meni čini ne mora da bude ispravno.
kulica
(tehnicar)
18. октобар 2010. у 23.47
Možeš misliti kako jedan 19-godisnjak razradjuje auto za koji se nije oznoijo(sad nisam ponosan na to ali onda mlad ,lud i teskog stopala).
Tehnicar
(Tehnicar)
19. октобар 2010. у 21.21
Evo linka o tome kako razraditi novi motor na autu i zašto je bolje voziti ostrije u toku razradjivanja:

http://www.ntnoa.org/enginebreakin.htm
Hobo
(Pacifing by force)
20. октобар 2010. у 22.15
Ko to kaže ko to laže

„Synopsis: There is NO such thing as ”Glaze Breaking.„ That's because there's no such thing, in a cylinder, as ”glaze„ - the word implies a deposit of foreign materials of some sort on your cylinder's surface. Unless you've been running with Teflon in your oil or some such silly thing as that, from whence would the foreign materials have come? Cylinders don't ”glaze.„ Brake drums glaze - brake shoe material can actually become deposited on the drum surface, but cylinders don't.

No, what you've got is a smooth, polished, machine surface - just the thing for your new rings to seal against, once their high spots have been rubbed off in a careful and responsible break-in process. One which does NOT need to be preceeded by using the crudest of all the machine tools to scratch, abrade, trash, dog, bullyrag, and otherwise screw up your lovely smooth cylinder.

You see, the point is that, providing you use cast-iron piston rings, the rings will bed in to the shiny cylinder surface with few problems, and in a short time, too! Turns out that running an abrasive hone unecessarily through your cylinder will only serve to:

prolong the break-in process - by having created ”valleys„ of hone scratches in your cylinder wall, the ”mountains„ of which must be worn down before you get a smooth, properly-sealing cylinder wall once again. (And a considerably larger one, at that!)

leave some of the hone's abrasive materials in the bottom of the scratches, to leach slowly into your oil and accelerate engine wear - of ALL the engine components - for a long time to come

establish a new ”base line„ cylinder diameter to wear down to, thus ensuring that you'll end up with larger ring gaps and greater piston clearance by the time your new rings are ”worn in.„

All in all, reducing the time you'll get from that engine before the next service is required, and hastening the arrival of a need for a rebore and oversize piston.

How Do I know all this? Well, for the curious, here's the story:

A Little Addendum

Got into a discussion on this on the Royal Enfield egroup the other day, and found myself adding to this. Here's how it went:

I will try one last time: (Don't ask me why)

1) There IS no ”glaze„! That's a polished surface. Call it
”final machining„ done by the last set of rings. It's a
wonderfully smooth surface of a certain size.
Microscopically, it looks like this:

| ... |
| ... |
| ... |
| ... |

2) If you run a hone through it, lightly or heavily, you rough
it up, and create low spots. It then looks like this:

...
/ ... /
...
/ ... /
...

Until it ”runs in„ to a new bigger size that looks like
this:

| ... |
| ... |
| ... |
| ... |
| ... |

3) Your new rings, and your piston, must get the surface
smooth again, by wearing down the high spots (what is
left of the old polished surface - NOT a ”glaze„ -to the
level of the low spots.

a) This results in accelerated wear of all engine parts,
due to the grinding compound” effect of the metal
being worn off as your cyinder is ground to the
oversize of the bottom of the wear spots - as well
as the GCE of the abrasive residue which will
inevitably be left in the low spots - at the bottom
of the grooves created by the unnecessary hone.

b) A final (after break-in) size of the cylinder being
larger, the piston being smaller, and the ring gaps
being larger once this unnecessary abuse of your
surfaces has been completed.

I've told you that the reason I stopped honing polished bores, and
using cast-iron rings on rering jobs was because the SAE research
report found that identical engines treated both ways, and then
run for a fairly long interval after reassembly showed that:

a) The „deglazed engines” showed lower compression and
significantly greater wear upon being disassembled and
examined than those which were not „deglazed.”

b) The „deglazed” engines oil consumption was higher during
the so-called „break in” period than that of the others, and
continued to be higher throughout the virtual service life.
(These were test bed engines.)

c) Periodic compression checks revealed that at all stages, the
compression on the deglazes engines was lower.

So what more do you need? Join HA (honer's anonymous) today! (My name's Pete Snidal, and I'm a honer.) Become a recovering honer, and enjoy less trouble and longer rering life„”
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