Дискусије : Здравље

Коментар
Meksicki grip
ljubicasamir
(pisac)
09. новембар 2009. у 12.23
Jako me zanima dali i porodica deca mogu da dobiju grip od ukucana koji ga ima ,do sada su to pojedinacni slučajevi nisu bolesne cele porodice kao od ovog poznatog virusa .I dali ste se vakcinisali i sa kojom vakcinom ,dali je sve to kao što se prica .
mile_s_kombajnom
(edukator)
09. новембар 2009. у 15.21
Evo kakva je situacija sa mnom:

1. Nisam se vakcinisao, vakcina nije ni dostupna svakome ovde u USA, video sam da samo ugrozene grupe ljudi primaju (trudnice, stariji, hrinicni bolesnici), kao i oni koji borave na mestu gde je mogućnost prenosenja gripa povecana (vakcinacija studenata je u toku).
2. Lično ne verujem u teoriju zavere jer sve te price dolaze od dve grupe ljudi (nikada institucija), a to su ili penzionisani doktori koji bi da ucare koji dinar na mlacenje prazne slame ili bivši radnici farmaceutskih kuci, kojima je, naprsno, posle otkaza, proradila savest da „da otkriju istinu”, mada ima toliko nezavisnih institucija koje bi samo na jedan jedini mig o neispravnosti rastvaraca za vakcine gurnule isti u mass-speck i stavile svoje ime u na naslovnu stranu vesti jer su otkrile da vakcina ne valja... to se nije desilo i sve price o zaveri dolaze iz neproverenih izvora, prema tome radi se samo o naklapanju.
3. Ova vakcina je samo drugi soj virusa gripa, nema razloga da bude u nacelu drugacija od bilo koje druge vakcine, pa prema tome ne vidim razlog zašto bi bila opasnija. Problem je što se virus pojavio u nezgodno vreme i sto predstavlja dodatno opeterecenje za proizvodnju dovoljnog broja vakcina, pored vakcina sezonskog gripa koje treba prizvesti...
4. Radim sa dosta velikim brojem lekara, i ni jedan od njih nije izrazio nikakvu sumnju što se vakcine tiče, par njih se bavi vakcinama (ne gripa već drugim bolestima).
5. Naravno, kao i svaku vakcinu, i ovu uzimas na vlastitu odgovornost, uvek imajuci u vidu nus-efekte koje ista može da izazove, jednostavno izvagas sve i doneses sam odluku (kakav ti je imuni sistem, da li teško prolazis kroz periode gripa, da li si hronicni bolesnik itd itd).
heavenbesideu
09. новембар 2009. у 15.46
pozdrav kombajner,

1 jedino ste to pametno i u radili, mada nisam kupio izgovor da nije bila dostupna.

2 ovo je verovatno najotrcaniji neuspeo pokusaj alopatije da prostom zamenom teza navede na pogresan zakljucak.

3 ovo je najbolje LMAO! bukvalno SVAKA vakcina je opasna po zdravlje.

4 sad i znamo odakle ovakvo razmišljanje. vi imate bas kao i vasi prijatelji tunel vision jer ste tako i uceni i vaspitani
da ne pogledate ni levo ni desno.

vasa logika i vasih prijatelja

IF THERE AIN'T PILL FOR IT, IT'S NOT AN ISSUE, RIGHT?

5 ROFL!pa cemu pobogu ovo kad ste se upljvali da nam dokazete da je vase „cijepivo” zdravo?
mile_s_kombajnom
(edukator)
09. новембар 2009. у 15.54
E a ovo je najotrcaniji reply na moj post koji sam ikada ja dobio: neargumentaovano (molicu navedite makar i jedan pouzdani izvor informacija svega sto zastupate o stetnosti vakcine, bilo koje, i jednu statistiku, naucni rad, bilo šta sto je objavljeno u bilo kom casopisu koji nije tip „Treće oko”, citirajte bilo kod strucnjaka koji a da nije Tomica, Drago Plecko, ili bilo koji drugi estradni doktor, ili neki propali ruski naucni) Ja sam spreman da slusam, mada se do sada uvek diskusija sa bilo kime zavrsavala na ovom mom pitanju. Prema tome, bez uvreda i izvolite!
heavenbesideu
09. новембар 2009. у 16.04

David Kirby: New Study: Hepatitis B Vaccine Triples the Risk of Autism in Infant Boys
Dice no yes maybe By David Kirby http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/09/david-kirby-new-study-hepatitis-b-vaccine-triples-the-risk-of-autism-in-... tml

„The science is largely complete. Ten epidemiological studies have shown MMR vaccine doesn’t cause autism; six have shown thimerosal doesn’t cause autism.”
-- Dr. Paul Offit, „Autism’s False Prophets”

„16 studies have shown no causal association between vaccines and autism, and these studies carry weight in the scientific industry.”
-- Dr. Nancy Snyderman, NBC Today Show Medical Editor

Conventional wisdom holds that the autism-vaccine question has been „asked and answered,” and that least 16 large, well-constructed epidemiological studies have thoroughly addressed and debunked any hypothesis that childhood vaccination is in any way associated with an increased risk for autism spectrum disorders.

But there are several critical flaws in such an oversimplified generalization, and they are rarely given close examination by public health experts or members of the media.

To begin with, it is unscientific and perilously misleading for anyone to assert that „vaccines and autism” have been studied and that no link has been found. That’s because the 16 or so studies constantly cited by critics of the hypothesis have examined just one vaccine and one vaccine ingredient.

The current US childhood immunization schedule calls for 28 injections with 11 different vaccines against 15 different diseases by two years of age. Of those 11 vaccines, only the Measles-Mumps-Rubella (MMR) shot has been studied in association with autism, (although a CDC study of an MMR-plus-chickenpox vaccine did show that the risk for febrile seizures in infants was doubled.)

Meanwhile, those 11 vaccines contain scores of ingredients, only one of which, thimerosal, has ever been tested in association with autism.

It is illogical to exonerate all vaccines, all vaccine ingredients, and the total US vaccine program as a whole, based solely on a handful of epidemiological studies of just one vaccine and one vaccine ingredient. It is akin to claiming that every form of animal protein is beneficial to people, when all you have studied is fish.

Now, a new study has shown that giving Hepatitis B vaccine to newborn baby boys more than triples the associated risk of developing an autism spectrum disorder.

An abstract of the study was published in the September, 2009 issue of the respected journal Annals of Epidemiology. In it, Carolyn Gallagher and Melody Goodman of the Graduate Program in Public Health at Stony Brook University Medical Center, NY, wrote that, „Boys who received the hepatitis B vaccine during the first month of life had 2.94 greater odds for ASD compared to later- or unvaccinated boys. Non-Hispanic white boys were 61% less likely to have ASD.” The authors used U.S. probability samples obtained from National Health Interview Survey (NHIS) 1997–2002 datasets.

The conclusion states that: „Findings suggest that U.S. male neonates vaccinated with hepatitis B vaccine had a 3-fold greater risk of ASD; risk was greatest for non-white boys.”


The authors noted that an earlier study by them found that hepatitis B vaccination was associated with receipt of early intervention/special education services (EIS); in probability samples of U.S. children, and that „children with autistic spectrum disorder (ASD) comprise a growing caseload for EIS.”

The author’s new study used a different database than their earlier study (NHIS vs. NHANES) and they found same thing, suggesting a validation of their findings.

Critics will point out that this sample was limited to boys born before 1999, so the results are only applicable to that U.S. male birth cohort, and that the study’s cross-sectional design limits inferences on causality. Another weakness is that the autism diagnoses were parent reported.

On the other hand, these results are generalizable to US boys age 3-17 born prior to 1999; vaccination status was confirmed through medical records; and there was controlling for confounders that may be associated with care seeking behaviors. (The P-value equaled 0.032) The full manuscript is currently under review by another journal.

Assuming that the full manuscript is published in a peer-reviewed journal, it will be among the first university-based population studies to suggest an association between a vaccine and an increased risk for autism. And that would be in direct contradiction to all those MMR and thimerosal studies that purportedly found no such link.

Does that mean that Hepatitis B vaccine causes autism? Of course not (though any relative risk above 2.0 is general considered to prove causation in a US court of law).

But there are other studies, both published and greatly anticipated, which might support a hypothesized causal association between HepB vaccine and ASD, at least in boys.
Any day now, data culled from CDC's Autism and Developmental Disabilities Monitoring network (ADDM), is expected to be published in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, and the numbers are expected to put the rate of autism at around 1 in 100, or higher.
ADDM researchers examine the education and (when possible) medical records of all eight-year-old children in selected US cities and states. They look only at eight-year-old cohorts to allow time for all diagnoses to be made, reported and counted.

So far, ADDM has published data from just two birth cohorts: children born in 1992 (eight-year-olds in 2000) and those born in 1994 (eight-year-olds in 2002). The 1992 cohort revealed an estimated ASD rate of one in 166, or 60-per-10,000. (This has since been revised to 67-per-10,000, or one in 150).

But CDC data for the same six ADDM locations showed an increase in ASD from 6.7 for 1992 births to 7.4 for 1994 births.

And now the total average number expected to exceed 100-per-10,000 for the 1996 birth cohort, born just two years later. The overarching question, of course, will be, „why?”

There are many possible explanations, though a 50% increase in just two years is astonishing, no matter what its cause.

One possible answer is the Hepatitis B vaccine, (which also contained 25 micrograms of mercury containing thimerosal up until 2002). Introduced in 1991, it was the first vaccine ever given on a population basis to newborn babies (within the first three hours after delivery) in human history.

But according to the CDC's National Immunization Survey, only 8% of infant children received the Hep B vaccine in 1992, when that birth cohort showed an ASD rate of 1-in-150.

By 1994, the number of children receiving Hep B vaccine at birth had reached just 27% --and the same cohort showed a 10% ASD increase in locations where both years were measured.

But by 1996, Hep B coverage rate had risen to 82%. And that is the cohort whose ASD rate rose to around 100-per-10,000 or more.

Correlation, obviously, does not equal causation. But the uptake rate of that particular immunization is at least one environmental factor that did demonstrably change during the period in question.

In addition, some recent studies and vaccine court decisions have supported the contention that Hepatitis B vaccine can damage myelin -- the nervous system's main insulating component -- at least in certain genetically susceptible adults and infants.

A study published last October in the journal Neurology found that children who received the Hepatitis B vaccine series were 50% more likely to develop „central nervous system inflammatory demyelination” than children who did not receive the vaccine.
Most of this increase was due to the Engerix B brand of the vaccine, manufactured by the UK's GlaxoSmithKline. That brand increased the risk of demyelination by 74%, and patients with confirmed multiple sclerosis were nearly three times more likely to develop the disorder.
„Hepatitis B vaccination does not generally increase the risk of CNS inflammatory demyelination in childhood,” the authors concluded. „However, the Engerix B vaccine appears to increase this risk, particularly for confirmed multiple sclerosis, in the longer term. Our results require confirmation in future studies.”

Let’s hope that future studies of neonatal HebB administration, demyelinating disorders, and ASD are completed as quickly as possible.

David Kirby is author of Evidence of Harm, a founding contributor to Huffington Post and a contributor to Age of Autism. His next book, Animal Factory: The Looming Threat of Industrial Pig, Dairy, and Poultry Farms to Humans and the Environment will be released within the year and is available now for pre-order at Amazon.
heavenbesideu
09. новембар 2009. у 16.14
samo deo posto je predugacko, al ako treba dacu sve

related research

by P.G. King and G.S. Goldman/MedicalVeritas 5 (2008) 1610–1644

© Copyright 2008, Medical Veritas International, Inc. All rights reserved.

[pdf version] Key realities about autism, vaccines, vaccine-injury compensation, Thimerosal, and autism-related research----Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D. & P.G. King PhD. www.MedicalVeritas.com/vaccinemyth.pdf

Extracts

Abstract
1. Fundamental Autism Realities
Autism myth #1: Autism is a disorder whose cause is unknown.
Autism myth #2: Those having a diagnosis of autism or a diagnosis of mercury poisoning do not have the same symptoms.
Autism myth #3: Evidence is accumulating that autism is largely a genetic disorder (Szatmari 2008).
Autism myth #4: The families that have children who regressed into autism have always been anti-vaccine.
Autism myth #5: The autism „epidemic” does not represent a true increase in the disorder, but rather is an artifact of expanding the diagnosis (now referred to as autism spectrum disorder, ASD) and increased surveillance (Taylor 2006).
Autism myth #6: The science involving vaccines and autism is complex, making it difficult for the average person to sift through all the misdirection and misinformation.
Autism myth #7: Currently, the evidence leads to the firm conclusion that vaccines do not cause autism.
II. Key Vaccine Realities
Vaccine myth #1: Vaccines are one of the most successful programs in modern health care, reducing, and in some cases even eliminating, serious infectious diseases.
Vaccine myth #2: Public support for the vaccination program remains strong, especially in the United States where vaccination rates are currently at an all-time high of greater than 95% (CDC 2004).
Vaccine myth #3: Despite a long history of safety and effectiveness, vaccines have always had their critics: some parents and a tiny fringe of doctors question whether vaccinating children is worth what they perceive as the risks.
Vaccine myth #4: Vaccines, like most medical interventions, are not without risk; however, the benefits far outweigh those risks.
Vaccine myth #5: There are multiple independent lines of evidence that indicate vaccines do not cause autism.
Vaccine myth #6: The findings in the epidemiological studies relied upon by the 2004 IOM have been proven to be scientifically sound.
Vaccine myth #7: Robert Kennedy Jr. and others point to dubious evidence, such as the myth that the Amish do not vaccinate and do not get autism. Both of these claims are not true, and the data RFK Jr. refers to is nothing more than a very unscientific phone survey (Leitch 2007).
Vaccine myth #8: A victory for the anti-vaccination activists would undermine public confidence in what is arguably the single most effective public health measure devised by modern science.
Vaccine myth #9: There is an anti-vaccination movement that threatens the effectiveness of public health programs.
Vaccine myth #10: The decrease in public confidence in the current U.S. national vaccination programs from the disclosure of the factual risks and harms inherent in each vaccine will lead, as it has before, to declining vaccination compliance and an increase in infectious disease.
Vaccine myth #11: The anti-vaccination movement is largely based on poor science; and fear mongering has become more vocal and even hostile (Hughes 2007)
III. Key realities concerning the NVICP (National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program) and recent Poling Case
NVICP myth #1: NVICP myth #2: NVICP myth #3 Poling/NVICP myth #4: NVICP myth #5: NVICP myth #6: NVICP myth #7: NVICP myth #8:
IV. Key Thimerosal Facts
Thimerosal myth #1: myth #2: myth #3: myth #4: myth #5: myth #6: myth #7: myth #8: myth #9: myth #10 myth #11: myth #12: myth #13: myth #14: myth #15: myth #16: myth #17:
V. Key realities concerning Wakefield/Geier’s Research
Wakefield/Geier’s research myth #1:
Wakefield/Geier’s research myth #2:
Wakefield/Geier’s research myth #4:
Wakefield/Geier’s research myth #5:
Wakefield/Geier’s research myth #6:
Wakefield/Geier’s research myth #7:
Chelation Therapy
Hormonal Therapy
Wakefield/Geier’s research myth #8:
Wakefield/Geier’s research myth #9:
Wakefield/Geier’s research myth #10:
Conclusion

Abstract
The propaganda dispensed by Public health care and vaccine apologists is, at best, a weak attempt to rationalize the healthcare establishment’s positions using all the tools of doublespeak or, as George Orwell’s called it in his book 1984, „newspeak”, to: (a) mislead, (b) distort reality, (c) pretend to communicate, (d) make the bad seem good, (e) avoid and/or shift responsibility, (f) make the negative appear positive, (g) create a false verbal map of the world, and (h) create dissonance between reality and what their narrative said or did not say.

Such propaganda often relies on half-truths and/or superficially logical, but foundationally flawed, phrasing. However, this propaganda is fundamentally flawed and based on pseudo-science or non-reviewable statistical studies of medical records, where, contrary to ethical science, the study design, data selection/rejection criteria, exact approach used to evaluate the data, and/or the original data itself are kept confidential making independent evaluation/verification of the published findings impossible. A review of the statements from an article in the November 1, 2007 issue of the Skeptical Inquirer that is entitled „Vaccines and Autism: Myths and Misconceptions” by Steven Novella, MD (which was found online at http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-170731919.html ) triggered this presentation of the factual realities that rebut the myths/misconceptions presented in that article and/or in similar articles published and/or underwritten by the purveyors of vaccines and vaccination recommendations. Each myth/misconception is summarized in a short statement and then addressed by presenting the factual reality and when appropriate, providing peer reviewed references that support this reality.

1. Fundamental Autism Realities

Autism myth #1: Autism is a disorder whose cause is unknown.

Reality: Autism is a disorder that is diagnosed by a defined set of symptoms/behaviors (according to the DSM-IV or Diagnostic and Statistical Manual 4th edition) that are known to have multiple causes, some of which are known (e.g., Thalidomide, alcohol consumption, and synthetic retinoids [synthetic Vitamin A derivatives] taken during pregnancy, and poisoning by heavy metals such as lead and mercury [most recently, via Thimerosal]).1 In general, there are two recognized types of autism: congenital and regressive (or delayed-onset) autism. However, with the recommendations: a) to inoculate pregnant women with a potential Rh-factor blood incompatibility with a Thimerosal-preserved serum (a Rho(D) serum) at 28 weeks, during any amniocentesis or spotting episode in the late 1980s to early 2000s)2 and b), starting in 2002, to vaccinate pregnant woman with influenza vaccines that are Thimerosal-preserved,3 it has obviously become increasingly difficult to differentiate between these two types of autism.

_________________________________
1 April 2007 (PowerPoint Presentation) by Dr. Larry Needham, Chief, Organic Analytical Toxicology Branch, National Center for Environmental Health, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, „Exposure (To Stressors) and Autism Spectrum Disorders” to the Institute of Medicine of the US National Academy of Sciences.
2 a. American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (1976). Current uses of Rho immune globulin and detection of antibodies. ACOG Tech Bull.35.
b. Bowman JM, Chown B, Lewis M, Pollock JM. Rh isoimmunization during pregnancy: antenatal prophylaxis. Can Med Assoc J 1978; 118:623–7.
c. Bowman JM, Pollock JM. Antenatal prophylaxis of Rho isommunization: 28-weeks’-gestation service program. Can Med Assoc J. 1978; 118:627–30.
d. American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (1981). The selective use of Rho(D) Immune Globulin (RhlG). ACOG Tech Bull 61.
e. Pollack W. Rh hemolytic disease of the newborn; its cause and prevention. Prog Clin Biol Res 1981; 70:185–203.
f. American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (1990). Prevention of D isoimmunization. ACOG Tech Bull. 147.
3 Bridges CB, Fukuda K, Uyeki TM, Cox NJ, Singleton JA. Prevention and Control of Influenza Recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP). MMWR 2002 Apr 12; 51(RR03):1–31.

Autism myth #2: Those having a diagnosis of autism or a diagnosis of mercury poisoning do not have the same symptoms.

Reality: The set of symptoms used to diagnose autism and other neurodevelopmental disorders are the same as or highly similar to the symptoms seen in individuals with sub-acute mercury poisoning.

In addition, other non-neurological symptoms (e.g, severe gastrointestinal dysfunction, dystonia) are exhibited by those who have a diagnosis of sub-acute (less than ultimately lethal) mercury poisoning because Thimerosal is an all-systems poison (e.g., cardiovascular, endocrine, dermal, etc.)

The reality of the preceding has been repeatedly established and discussed by Dr. King4 who presents comparative listings of and references for the similarity between the symptoms of autism and related neurodevelopmental disorders and those of sub-acute mercury poisoning.

To aid the reader, a portion of the information provided in Dr. King’s reference is presented in Table I below.

___________
4 Appendix A, „Comparison Of: The Characteristics of ‘Autism’ To Those For Mercury Poisoning,” in Thimerosal Causes Mercury Poisoning I—A Rebuttal to Dr. Novella's Views (30 Aug. 2005). Available online at www.mercury-freedrugs.org/docs/Thimerosal_Causes_Mercury_Poisoning.pdf

Table I: Summary Comparison of „Traits” of Autism and Mercury Poisoning
Where differences in typical language exist, „Autism/ASD” is designated by „(ASD)”; „Mercury Poisoning” by „(HgP”)

Psychiatric Disturbances
Social deficits, social withdrawal, shyness.
Repetitive, preservative, stereotypic behaviors; obsessive-compulsive tendencies.
Depression/depressive traits, mood swings, flat affect; impaired face recognition.
Anxiety; schizoid tendencies; irrational fears.
Irritability, aggression, temper tantrums.
Lacks eye contact; impaired visual fixation (HgP). Problems in joint attention (ASD).

Speech and Language Deficits
Loss of speech, delayed language, failure to develop speech.
Dysarthria; articulation problems.
Speech comprehension deficits.
Verbalizing and word retrieval problems (HgP). Echolalia, word use and pragmatic errors (ASD).

Sensory Abnormalities
Abnormal sensation in mouth and extremities.
Sound sensitivity; mild to profound hearing loss.
Abnormal touch sensations; touch aversion.
Over-sensitivity to light; blurred vision.

Motor Disorders
Flapping, myoclonal jerks, choreiform movements, circling, rocking,
toe walking, unusual postures.
Deficits in eye-hand coordination; limb apraxia; intention tremors

heavenbesideu
09. новембар 2009. у 16.22
sah-mat!
rtex2k
(student)
09. новембар 2009. у 18.59
I ja isto dodajem SAH-MAT

Sigurno je zavera u pitanju. Da se poveca zarada farmaceutskih kompanija.

Virus je vestacki i uvek pocinje u nekoj siromasnoj zemlji pa se raširi dalje, kao i SIDA na primer.

Ja neću vakcinu, kao i 70% ljudi u Srbiji. Takav je izvestaj po forumima, kao i u praksi. Ne verujem nikome, dok lično ne proverim u laboratoriiji.
mile_s_kombajnom
(edukator)
09. новембар 2009. у 21.30
Vidim da ste dosta vremena posveteli pretrazivanju literature, na zalost ja nemam toliko vremena da krenem da pretrazujem literaturu i dokumentujem suprotno. Svako ima pravo da odluci hoće li da se vakcinise i da snosi deo rizika da dozivi neki od opisanih nus-efekata ili da rizikuje da dobije bolest protiv koje vakcina pruza zastitu, tako je to uvek u zivotu, nikada nije sve crno niti sve belo, ako procitate pazljivo moj prvi post, videcete da sam upravo to i rekao, ne postoji 100% efikasan lek niti 100% bezazleni lek.
Ja sam do pre par godina dobijao vakcinu protiv gripa, ali sam primetio da onda kada dobijem vakcinu, posle desetak dana redovno dobijem prehladu, tako da sam zakljucio da i taj umrtvljeni virus oslabi moj imuni sistem i onda sam mnogo podlozniji prehladi, mada grip nikako nisam dobijao, i zbog tog nus-efekta sam prestao da uzimam vakcinu, rekoh ako već treba da budem bolestan, ajd da barem ne stimulisem svoj imuni sistem vestacki. Prošle godine sam ponovo, zbog zenine trudnoće, uzeo vakcinu protiv gripa i srećom nisam imao ni prehladu ni grip. Supruga je takođe dobila vakcinu protiv gripa mesec dana pre porodjaja, mada istu pre toga nikada nije primila.

Vi verovatno nemate dece pa ne razmišljate na način na koji oni koji imaju decu razimsljaju: da li odbiti sve vakcine i rizikovati da dete jednog dana dobije neku od bolestina od dece ciji su roditelji takođe odbili da vakcinisu decu ili preuzeti rizik stetnosti vakcine. Kad jednog dana budete imali decu, javite se da onda diskutujemo o ovoj temi.

Svejedno, cenim vas trud na pretrazivanju literature i vremenu posvecenom odgovoru na postavljenu temu.
Srdacan pozdrav.
mile_s_kombajnom
(edukator)
09. новембар 2009. у 21.49
Usput, evo mog slučaja od pre par nedelja: Saznali smo da je studentkinja koja pomaze u obdanistu gde je nas mali dobila H1N1. U jednom trenutku mali je poceo da odbija da pije mleko ili bilo koju tecnost, tj drasticno je smanjio unost tecnosti, mole je poceo da slinavi, a nocu je dobio temperaturu oko 39C. Dali smo mu Tylenol kapi i temperatura je pala, sutradan nije isao u obdaniste, ali mu je temperatura non stop bila oko 100F (mislim da je negde oko 38,nešto, sto će reci blago povisena, ali mu nismo davali nikakve lekove, normalno je jeo, možda malo manje unosio tecnosti), a sledećeg dana mu je temperatura bila normalna, sem sto je kasalj i zapusen nos ostao... Posle 5 dana supruga dobije jaku temperaturu, malaksalost, sinusitis, kasalj... pozove doktora, opise mu simptome i on je odmah baci na tamiflu (co-payment za ovaj lek je $60). Supruzi je temperatura pala posle prvog dana uzimanja tamiflu-a, nastavila je još 4 dana dok se nije vratila u normalno stanje. Sada leci sekundarnu infekciju antibioticima (sinusitis). DA LI JE U PITANJU BIO H1N1 ili ne, ne znamo, nikad nisu ni ponudili testiranje. Ja nisam imao nikakve simptome. Ni jednom od nas nisu ponudili nikakvu vakcinu (nas pedijatar, lekar opste prakse), vakcina za decu još uvek nije dostupna, kao sto rekoh, video sam da vakcinisu samo studente na univerzitetu. Vakcina još uvek nije ponudjena čak ni radnicima zdravsvene ustanove u kojoj radim (verovali ili ne). Usput, u pitanju je veliki medicinski centar u USA.
Pozdrav.
pravda_i_istina
09. новембар 2009. у 22.26
u nasem obdanistu prekosutra kreće mistflu nazalno (nema dovoljno regularnih vakcina), pa ako može doktor da posavetuje nekoliko porodica da li da damo deci, ilid a pricekamo 2. dozu posle mesec+ dana? - pitanjue sam postavio i na izdvojenoj temi.
hvala
pravda_i_istina
09. новембар 2009. у 22.31
mile, deca ovde ukljucujuci i naše su isto imala visoku temperaturu par dana - lako se skidala 3x dnevno motrinom... sad, šta je bilo u pitanju i kako da se mi odrasli nismo razboleli...
mile_s_kombajnom
(edukator)
09. новембар 2009. у 23.25
Koliko sam čuo, nasal spray „vakcina” se ne daje deci ispod dve godine zato što je u pitanju živi, ali oslabljeni (attenuated) virus, za mladju decu se daje samo „klasicna vakcina” napravljena od imunogenih delova virusa. Nisam čuo da je ta vakcina još uvek stigla kod nas.
pravda_i_istina
10. новембар 2009. у 00.02
pa, da preschoolers 3's, 4's, 5's samo su doneli kuci formulare..
sad sam i ja iscitao ovde http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/nasalspray.htm ... danima, ma mesecima sam u toku, da je manje paranoisanja lakse bih razlucio, ovako...
medianka
10. новембар 2009. у 07.13
@mile_s_kombajnom

Vi verovatno nemate dece pa ne razmišljate na način na koji oni koji imaju decu razimsljaju: da li odbiti sve vakcine i rizikovati da dete jednog dana dobije neku od bolestina od dece ciji su roditelji takođe odbili da vakcinisu decu ili preuzeti rizik stetnosti vakcine. Kad jednog dana budete imali decu, javite se da onda diskutujemo o ovoj temi.
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Moji roditelji su verovali lekarima i vakcini kao da je Bog, a od mene napravili nepopravljivu štetu, postala sam doživotno invalid...i po drugi put tako od ove sadašnje vakcine ne pada mi na pamet da budem dvostruko invalid. Znam kakav je to težak život, prvo sebe i roditeljima je teško i još da trpim podsmeh i zlobu od okoline još i bacam pare Republičkom zdravstvu za pomagala. Ne ponovilo mi se. Ja mojoj deci nikad to ne bih preporučila.

mile_s_kombajnom
(edukator)
10. новембар 2009. у 09.07
medianka

Mnogo mi je zao što se to desilo, verujem da su tvoji roditelji mislili najbolje kad su odabrali da te vakcinisu. Komplikacije su uvek moguće, i onaj ko odluci da primi vakcinu, kao i onaj ko odluci da uzme bilo koji drugi lek treba da bude svestan svih POTENCIJALNIH NEZELJENIH EFEKATA. Statistika na zalost nema milosti: čak i govoriti od procentu od 0.001% ipak znači da za onog jednog u njih 1000 kome se tako nešto desi bude 100%.
heavenbesideu
10. новембар 2009. у 10.04
pozdrav mile,

ja na ovo gledam kao na vasu pobedu, jer sam vam pomogao da otvorite makar jedno oko.

za ono drugo morate se postarati sami, i zbog vas lično a i zbog vase porodice.

Samo Srbin Srbina Spasava!

medianka
10. новембар 2009. у 16.17
Mile, svaki roditelj želi sve najbolje svom detetu i to je neosporno. Ranije vremena su bila takva, ograničen pristup informacijama, novine i TV bili su birokratski, slušaš vlasti pokorno i slepo...nema načina da dođe do sumnje ili proverene informacije. A sada...imaš ogroman pristup netu, sloboda govora i odlučivanja, smeniš vlasti ako vam ne odgovara...širok spektar mogućnosti za proverene informacije, makar do tajne laboratorije u kojoj se pravi H1N1 i tužiti ih. Kažem, ranije roditelji nisu imali načina da saznaju i nikako nisu krivi, a sada iako roditelji su dobro upućeni i donesu takvu tešku odluku i dete se ošteti na bilo koji način a znali ste, kako biste objasnili?
BEHEPA
12. новембар 2009. у 06.40
Mile, ima nas ovde koji imamo decu i kojima vakcinacija dece protiv varicela, zauski, rubela, hepatitisa B i A, rotavirusa, gripa i sl. nikako nije mila i koji smatramo da, da, farmaceutkse kuce mlate pare izmišljajuci nove „strasne” decje bolesti protiv kojih je vakcinacija obavezna.

Vi ste tražili da Vam se da na uvid neka studija. Dobili ste. Živite u Americi gde literature imate i previse na datu temu, pa nemojte da Vas mrzi da trazite ili da se vadite da nemate vremena. Istrazite to pitanje Vaseg deteta radi. Niti vakcina pruza zastitu do kraja niti je bezbedna. Bilo koja.

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